Aggie Legends Podcast S1E4: Bruce Broussard ’84

BEN WIGGINS
Howdy Ags! We recorded this episode prior to Bruce’s appointment as interim CEO of HP. We wish him the best with that appointment, and we hope you enjoy the episode.

BRUCE BROUSSARD
I look through my life and some of the biggest learnings I had was the mistakes I’ve made. And I don’t regret those, because they allowed me to then accelerate to where I could go.

BEN WIGGINS
Welcome to Aggie Legends, where we talk with founders, CEOs, and other successful Aggies about the lessons in leadership that they’ve experienced throughout their careers. I’m Ben Wiggins Mays, MBA, class of 2018. And today we have Bruce Broussard joining us.

Bruce is a finance and accounting graduate of Mays Business School. Bruce had a storied career in health care services, holding many executive positions. Most recently, he was president and CEO of Humana, which he led for more than a decade, before stepping down in 2024. He serves on multiple corporate and nonprofit boards, including as board chair of the trust for the National Mall in Washington, D.C.

Bruce, you’re a first generation college graduate and it wasn’t even a given that you would go to college. How did you end up at Texas A&M?

BRUCE BROUSSARD
Ben, first, I just want to say thanks for having me.

BEN WIGGINS
Absolutely.

BRUCE BROUSSARD
And it is, it’s an interesting story as I think back and if I was to rule where I was thinking then to where I am now, I wouldn’t have ever imagined. But really, in high school, I was not the best student. My counselor told me to go to vocational school. And I’m, as you mentioned, I’m a first generation individual going to college. And I said, you know, I don’t know if that’s the right thing for me. I should go to college. But more importantly, my friends influenced me to come to school. And, so I decided to go to school.

Now, the question that’s probably got a sub discussion to it is why did I choose A&M? And it’s funny, I applied to different Texas schools and I was accepted to UT. I went to the UT orientation in the summer. And I realized, after the conclusion of that orientation, I would never get out of that school. And because of Austin, because of my friends, my girlfriend was going to be there. And I really had a lot of fondness for A&M’s values. And almost the inherent discipline it brings. I said if I’m going to get out of school, I need to go to an environment that will instill that in me.

I remember calling up the admissions office and saying that’s when you had dial phones and those kinds of things, and saying am I still accepted? And they said yes, we don’t have a dorm for you. So I had to live off campus. I had to put something together. But ultimately that’s how I got there. And I’m so thankful I did.

BEN WIGGINS
What was most remarkable about your student experience? Like what do you really remember, how did it change you?

BRUCE BROUSSARD
I’m a big believer in environment. And environment is not just what you’re in from a point of view of buildings and all the materialistic things, it’s about the people. And I just found A&M’s friendliness, I found that there’s a goodness here that you want to do the right thing. The values of hard work. I think it’s you know, a lot of the university stems from the original military. Back in the 70s and 60s, but it’s that foundation that brought it here.

And then ultimately, what I’ve seen in today, the friendship that I created here, have been deep. And in fact, you know, every year my roommates and I will go away for three or four days. And that was like 40 something years ago, and, I said it’s a neat values system that inherently forms your judgment around life. And so it’s not just an education, and what you get from a, from a sort of a degree and point of view. It’s really, it’s how you live your life.

BEN WIGGINS
Was there ever a moment where you felt overwhelmed, you felt like maybe I am in over my head, maybe college wasn’t the right choice for me? Or once you, or conversely, once you got here, did you feel, all right, this is where this is where I needed to be all along?

BRUCE BROUSSARD
I would say that early on it was intimidating. Intimidating for a few reasons: A, not to know what to expect, B, you know, my family just wasn’t, you know, in that crowd, so to speak, and then C, you know, taking courses that, you know, that seemed difficult at the time. And so, I would say it, it wasn’t a you know, a straight line, but it was comfortably pushing me. I would say it wasn’t very stressful, but it was comfortably pushing me.

BEN WIGGINS
And then you, you majored in accounting and finance and you’re a CPA, but you rose to leadership positions relatively early in your career, then. Tell us about that development then, from technical expertise to honing the skills that, you know, that made you a good manager and leader.

BRUCE BROUSSARD
I think there’s a, there’s a number of levels that I think what I found in the, in my education, it gave me a base of understanding, but it did not give me deep technical skills of that. And in addition, it gave me a base of understanding of who I was, but it didn’t give me the how to do it. And I really found that building some foundational skills, I wasn’t, this wasn’t a target of mine, it just sort of came, was really important. And these foundation skills, I found, have served me through my life.

And I started when I went back to Houston, and worked in Houston, I lived in the northern suburbs and commuted in, and I had a long commute, 45 minutes or so. And on the way to my, to work, I listened to tapes and I listened to motivational tapes that gave me a sense of, what are those things that you’re searching for? And I found, you know, purpose was a really important part, and you need to have a reason to do something that, that’s not only about financial gratitude, it’s about making an impact.

The second thing I found is that the ability to do this in a way that is impactful. And to be able to orient to the impact side, have a positive mindset, that, you know, yeah every day is not going to be the best day. And, but thinking that there’s just a gratitude. I also found the ability for us, and all of us to have this growth mindset. So, this ability to be curious, this ability to take risk, this ability to to really put yourself in an uncomfortable position and grow from it. And those principles around purpose, around this ability to growth mindset, this positive mentality, and this ability for you to sort of take the risk that you want, were all important aspects to what I look at today.

BEN WIGGINS
How do you feel that your approach to impact and your approach to growth mindset may differ from others, like what is what is the unique Bruce, you know, take on impact and on growth mindset?

BRUCE BROUSSARD
I would say, it’s probably not different from everyone. But I would say I start from being a servant, and start from what can I do to help others, as opposed to what isn’t doing it for me.

I found that, especially early in my career, really allowed me to advance more than others because I didn’t go there just to do the job. I went there to say, well, how can I be the best for the person I’m working for and be the best and that so that their product that I’m giving them is superior, that allows them to do their job better or make them look better, or the client is more satisfied, whatever it may be. This idea of servitude.

BEN WIGGINS
How did that value and your other values guide you in difficult moments? Like what was, you know, early in career and in leadership, what was the, the nexus of…

BRUCE BROUSSARD
This idea of doing the right thing that gets back to your whole purpose was really important and servitude, both of those were large drivers of that. And I would say the doing the right thing was very important in those trying decisions. Servitude was more why am I doing the work I’m doing, and who am I serving, how the quality of it. But this idea of purpose was very important in these tougher decisions.

BEN WIGGINS
What was the time that those core values really cut the most?

BRUCE BROUSSARD
You know, just to give you an example of the idea of doing right, the purpose of it, you know, a number of years ago, our family bought a large hotel on the east coast of Florida. It was built in the 1930s and reconverted into an assisted living facility. And then we, then, built another complex to it that was similar to a senior apartment complex. And so it was an aging community, so to speak. And, as we were building the second building, it got hit by four hurricanes.

BEN WIGGINS
Sorry, four hurricanes? Okay.

BRUCE BROUSSARD
It was back in the mid 2000s, when there was four hurricanes that came through Florida and every one of them decided to hit the town that this building was in. And after the fourth one, that was, ironically, every time we put a floor up a hurricane would come.

BEN WIGGINS
That was like the testing process.

BRUCE BROUSSARD
Exactly, after the fourth one we just stopped putting any more floors up, kind of thing. But I remember calling the structural engineer and saying, listen we need to test this to see the, you know, just structure wise, is right? I mean, and they came back and they said it had some warped walls and we could fix it, some beams had some water when blowing rain on it. But I asked him, I said, I’m going to put 120 elderly people, I want to make sure that not only is safe, but there’s no chance of mold or any other residue that comes from this. And he said, well, we can’t guarantee that, but we think it’s okay.

And I thought that about that, and you know, went home, and I the next day I went to to the office and I called them, I said, you know, I’m not feeling good that you can just say we can get it but I can’t guarantee that because I can’t guarantee the product to our seniors. And I said so we’re going to knock it down.

And so I called the insurance company and they said well we’re going to patch, and they told me what they’re going to pay me, and this is, I mean, it was a 250,000 square foot building. And I said, well, that’s not going to work for me because I don’t feel the right thing is to think it’s okay, as opposed to being insured, it’s okay. Or assured, I should say. And they said, well, we’re not going to pay for the knock down. I told them, I said, listen on November 15th, there’s going to be a wrecking ball out there. This is after going back and forth with them, and we’re going to knock it down. And so you can take all the pictures you want, but after November 15th. We’re going to rebuild it. That’s what I did. Now, three years later we went to court and I actually ultimately won.

And but the point I’m trying to make to that it would have been a lot easier, a lot less risk, probably would have a few less gray hairs if I would have just sort of did what the structural engineer said. But recognizing who ultimately is going to be using that, and that health and wealth for them is what I was already adding to. And to me, not being purpose driven and I would probably would then go on and say, well, the financial way would be the easiest and the right way to do it and be more practical. But that purpose driven aspect is an important part of that. Now, there’s a number of those decisions in my life, that sitting back and saying, what’s the right thing to do, even though it’s more painful you need to follow through on that.

BEN WIGGINS
Yeah, thank you for sharing that, and thanks for making the right decision for your…

BRUCE BROUSSARD
Community. Yeah, the community.

BEN WIGGINS
Let’s talk then about mentorship and the ways that you’ve relied on guidance from, you know, trusted parties, trusted people throughout your career. How did that process shift and evolve, from young career to the C-suite?

BRUCE BROUSSARD
You know, the definition of a mentor, I think, is interesting. It’s a combination of a number of things. And you really have to be thoughtful around what are you looking from a mentor. You know, there’s a networking or connector, kind of activity. There’s a coach that is looking and trying to give you advice. There’s a somebody that’s motivating you. Someone that’s giving you advice, but not just from coaching you, but, you know, a circumstance that you’re inquiring on. Role model. And early in my career, I found that the role model was a really important part of my mentoring.

I remember working for an individual and, and the consulting experience that I had, and I just was amazed at his breadth of knowledge and his technical skills, his ability to handle the clients. And I remember saying to myself I want to learn from him. And so how can I get in the environment that he’s in and learn?

What I didn’t know at the time, but it’s paid dividends over the years is I didn’t know he was a really tough guy to work for. No one has wanted to work for him. And he was rude at times. You know sometimes he’d be demeaning you know, in command and control. But he expected a lot out of you. And between the combination of his skills and knowledge and his ability to, and this expectation. He really changed my life. It was painful, in ways, but I wouldn’t go back.

And when I trace back my success to him, it really has a lot of the reasons why I’m successful. Over the years, I think first, just my, my commitment to high quality. My pushing not to take just the surface answer, to ask deeper questions and understand, my ability to be attentive to the details, but still have a broader perspective. This opportunity and, and in the case of the finance to be really deep and understanding the different parts, whether it’s, you know, bond documents, to forecasting, to structuring deals. All those things I learned from him and so it was an amazing opportunity, but it brought a lot of pain.

Now there’s things that I, I thought I learned from him, but they weren’t the right things to learn. So I had to move on to the mentoring there. But this idea of being really strong in the field that I was in and having a work ethic around quality and the ability to think big but small or was very important elements.

BEN WIGGINS
I want to hear more about the stuff you chose to put aside, like the mentorship you chose to say, I see you know how you got here, but this is not going to be me.

BRUCE BROUSSARD
Yeah. So, attributing it my first CFO job and the reason why I got it, really is to him. And in my first CFO job in a public company and I was 31 or so. I really thought command and control was the way you led. Because that’s what he taught me.

BEN WIGGINS
Sure, and that honestly is kind of what we have come from. Like that was, I think, a much more common style of leadership back then.

BRUCE BROUSSARD
And what I learned, through some, you know, mistakes and, and observations of others, command and control isn’t the way you lead people. You lead people through giving a purpose. Giving, getting to their heart. You then, you know, create a direction to get there and people call it strategic plan. And then you, you know, you execute with milestones, measurements, and things like that where you’re measuring your progress.

But as importantly you communicate to them what, how they fit into it. And that communication of how they fit into it, around with all the other communication of where we’re going and, and through storytelling, and other things like that, I just found is able to to bring that heart out of somebody, the mind, and their hands to really accomplish really great things. And to me it’s not go do that, It’s really building the reason to do it, how to do it, and the reminding of why we’re doing this.

I think a lot about how being in a more connected world, a world with better tools, a world, you know, just, just all of the stuff that we have now to assist us in the workplace, and with relationships, cell phones, you know, AI, like all of that sort of thing, how that enables the better style of leadership that we’re talking about here. If command and control was more necessary in, going back to the, you know, 100 years ago, 50 years ago, like if there was a sense in which kind of the more autocratic style of leadership was more necessary then than it is now. Was, you know, it’s still I mean, it still caused the same problems, but if there were problems that it was solving that we honestly don’t need to solve now because we’re solving them in other ways with technology or whatever. You know, maybe give you a little perspective on that.

Technology is actually creating different problems that we need to solve. There’s a model, a behavioral model, that is around how do you manage simple things? How do you manage complex things and how do you manage complicated things?

BEN WIGGINS
What’s the difference between the last two?

BRUCE BROUSSARD
So, the first one, is to put it, and I’m really talking about the problem itself, the simple thing is more aware, it’s a known problem, you have the answer. You need to fix it. And that’s where command and control probably comes into play because the expert, so it’s on the manufacturing line. Or the person that grew up on the manufacturing line sees it, oh, you know what, this part is broken. And then you get to, this is what we need to do. So, that brings a simpler concept, a simpler solution to the table.

A complex problem is a problem that has a known answer, but has many answers to it. You have to pick the answer. And so there, there’s a some level of expertise and there’s a problem solving aspect to it. So, that one would be, listen we have this issue with this, the pricing, and we need to solve the pricing and there’s formulas to figure it out and so on. Now we need to decide which pricing model we want to go. And so there’s a method to get there. You just need to go through the method. And so that requires a little bit of thinking, but it still requires this expertise that you learned through time.

Complicated problems are where there are so many dimensions to it that you don’t know the answer. And there hasn’t been there before. And so you have to work through test and learns, you have to get different diversity of thought. You have to get the, you have to try things out and fail. And to me, that latter part is really where this management of giving people a purpose and then being able to to drive towards a, have a strategy, but they’re figuring out more and more about the how as opposed to you telling them how to do it.

And I think the world, the business world, because of integration of technology brings multi-dimensional aspects of it that you’re really creating this need to have leaders that can discover the solution, as opposed to know the solution, and then the discovery process is an important part of that.

BEN WIGGINS
It sounds like then all leadership is becoming more entrepreneurial to some degree.

BRUCE BROUSSARD
Yeah, entrepreneurial and solutions that are much the less known. Because the world is much more complicated and the technology has created that complication.

BEN WIGGINS
I’ve heard business defined as taking the unknown and making it known. Thank you for sharing that. You led a fortune 50 company, you advise other large organizations as a board member. What is the quintessential Bruce Broussard style that you bring to your work?

BRUCE BROUSSARD
Yeah, I would say if you were to ask, you know, people they would say…

BEN WIGGINS
They would say command and control.

BRUCE BROUSSARD
Yeah, exactly. Caring. In fact, I got a book when I stepped down from Humana that was, I don’t know, 50 pages or so, that the right company asked people to, write notes in. And the and the common, actually, the book was “Caring”, that’s the name of the book. And it was a summation of all the different comments that were in there.

So this idea of servitude, this idea of purpose, really is where I start from. And then it evolves to this, a complex thinker, and sometimes, as I tell my wife, I make things that are simple, complex. And, I have an ability to sort of Rubik’s Cube, put it together, and connect the dots there. I would say humble in my approach and curious. So those are the areas where I sort of, I would say people would define me as, and that has defined my leadership style.

BEN WIGGINS
We’ve had a few leaders on this show who’ve been fortunate to talk with some other leaders, and it seems like the best leaders almost function just as a conduit for kind of doing what is best for the organization as a whole, like the best leader in their leadership role, per se, is almost, they’re almost, they’re a person of their own, but they’re almost not an entity of their own. It’s just sort of the collected, you know, will of what’s best for the organization and for the people that serve it.

BRUCE BROUSSARD
Almost a conductor of the symphony.

BEN WIGGINS
Yeah, that’s a good way of putting it.

BRUCE BROUSSARD
And I found, I was visiting with some students today and they asked me, you know, how did you make decisions? That was a question that was asked. And I said, you know, I didn’t make many decisions. I don’t, you know, I’ve been over those, thinking, Jesus, I must not have been a very effective CEO.

But, my reasoning for that is that I, my job is to pull the best out of people. So the decision becomes almost apparent. And what I find is the best tool a leader has, is the questions they ask. And as, because, what happens if you sit in a room and people are looking at you to make the decision, you don’t have all the context, you don’t have all the thoughts. And there’s been many times I’ve walked in the room and said, I know the answer to this. I know this is what we’re going to do and I’d walk out of that and it would be totally different because I asked others how, what they were thinking. And it could be on a broader topic or it could be on a very specific subject. And you bring out different contexts that then the group can make the decision and then they, they then begin to start to formulate the decision.

And that’s much more powerful, because you get diversity of thought, you get ownership, and then you also get the ability to display the making of the cake in front of everybody. And then you just, you then begin, they feel better about it. So, when you walk out of that room you have much more alignment than if you just say, hey we’re going to go do this, let’s go do it, kind of thing. And it’s much easier to go do the, you know, say I want to go do this and that’s what I do. But it’s, you’re not effective. So, I find that leaders make less decisions, good leaders make less decisions by orchestrating their team.

BEN WIGGINS
Yeah, no, I love that. What would you say are the most important things for them to focus on?

BRUCE BROUSSARD
I would say society, you know, we can attribute it to social media and everything’s perfect on social media. You can attribute it to the expectations that we have set for our, for the next generation. But, perfection is such an important part of what people are striving for. I’m not convinced perfection is the best thing.

I found in my, I made many, many mistakes. And this gets back to that growth mindset. About being curious, taking risks, those things. And I think you need to discover life through making mistakes. And I feel we are so, making a mistake is viewed as a bad thing. When I look through my life some of the biggest learnings I had was the mistakes I’ve made. And I don’t regret those, because they allowed me to then accelerate to where I could go. And to me, I think, as I think about individuals and their coming out of school, you know, and being prepared for success, I would just continue to say life is about discovery. And don’t be afraid of making mistakes.

BEN WIGGINS
What was the most important mistake that you made? What was the thing that, like, the thing that then, learning from that mistake or whatever rolled out of took you forward to something that was really important in the future?

BRUCE BROUSSARD
Yeah they’re a number, I mean, I made the comment about command and control as a leader. And that’s an example of a mistake. And, you know, I’ve found that my engagement scores were terrible, I found that we weren’t getting, the team was not on the same page, and, you know, I wasn’t an effective leader. And so I, you know, but that was an example of it. You know, there’s many examples that, I would say, that have impacted me. But, I would say, the ones that have been most impactful are the where I learned where my strengths and weaknesses are.

So, I’ll give you an example. I was a CFO, for the company I described, relatively, taking it public, and then went to another company and became the chief operating officer. And then I said, you know, I’m gonna go start a company. And so I went and started a company and one of the investment firms that were invested in the public company said, hey we’ll back him, kind of thing. So, I went and did it, and it was a, it was not a flop, but it wasn’t a success. You know, we got out with our capital and so on, but I learned a lot in that. I learned where my strengths are.

And what I learned is, complexity is one of my strengths. Dealing with big things that are complicated and that are, need to be, you know, torn apart and put back together kind of thing. I do really well, that. I get better as it gets bigger. Oh, and because the way I can influence people and push people along. And so if it’s small and it’s just it’s not very complicated, I don’t do good at it. And so, you saw me sort of revert back and say, you know, I really don’t want to do the small ones. I’m much better at the bigger ones. And that really, you know, sent me another way.

And my wife was always say, because it was 3 or 4 years of my life at that time, I was in my, you know, mid 30s and it was a sort of, you know, an important part of my life. And my wife says, that was the best learning you had. And because she saw my clarity of what I was good at. And where I could go. And so that was an example where I wouldn’t have gotten there, but I appreciated it. And in addition, you know, always, I probably wouldn’t have been as skillful as I am today, as a result of that.

BEN WIGGINS
That’s, thank you for telling that story and I appreciate your honesty about that experience. One other thing that I was curious about, with respect to mistakes, I do think that we’re getting, we as a society, are getting better at embracing failure and feeling like failure is not final.

When you think about how young people and experienced people should think about going and like go fail, go fail aggressively, but maybe do it in this particular way. How do you think about that?

BRUCE BROUSSARD
Well first, your first two points around, you know, I guess back to that whole purpose thing and doing the right thing and there, I, you know, you don’t want to compromise that. So, you never want to, you know, do, cut the edges off kind of thing. I think this idea of how big do you fail is a question of iteration, test and learn, and what you would do in a business. And I, I’m going through it now, you know, I’ve been defining myself over the years as a CEO of a public company. And, you know, I have to change with as I call it, the I am and, what do I want to do and be in. I know what I want, but I don’t know the how.

And so, you know I’m going through testing, and learning, and trying different things for myself. And the discovery is, it’s frustrating but it’s fun. It’s the ability to see things that I didn’t see and I, you know, sometimes I’ll get down on myself, well why you know that or this and that, but I’m not I’m not taking, you know, life risks. You know, I’m not, I’m iterating through it and saying, you know, I thought about this and I’ve done my diligence on it And I’m gonna test this out and see if it works.

BEN WIGGINS
Would you say that that process of discovering yourself is as important as, you know, the lessons that we learn for, you know, for career pursuits and all of that sort of thing?

BRUCE BROUSSARD
Yeah, very much. I think being grounded in what your principles, and not only values, but being grounded and what you’re good at and what you enjoy. Being grounded in things that motivate you, your passion. I don’t think if you don’t know that, it’s really hard to just make a decision and direction, and as broadest concepts, now as you narrow down it’s there. Sometimes you have to define those and sometimes you have to, you know, go through a process, whether that process is you know, asking yourself questions to, you know, going through and experiencing it.

BEN WIGGINS
I know that’s something that my dad retired several years ago from the university and had to make very specific efforts to really build his circle of friends, for example, and to, you know, find new hobbies. And he said that a lot of guys that he knew just kind of faded as they transitioned out of their largest career roles.

BRUCE BROUSSARD
Yeah, and is that because it gets back to that redefining the I am. And I say that because, you know, it defined you for so long. And I think, for men, because ego and other things like that is probably, let’s just say it’s a little more compounded. But it creates this, well that’s who I am. And then you go on that trajectory and you have to really redefine who you are. And you have to do it internally. And sometimes it’s concurrent, but it’s, you have to do it internally, as well as externally. And I do think that transition is always difficult.

BEN WIGGINS
I certainly wish you luck with it. And thank you, Bruce, for sharing your lessons in leadership on us, on Aggie legends with us today. On behalf of Mays Business School, I’m Ben Wiggins, and this is Aggie Legends. Make sure to like and subscribe, it really helps. Leave a comment, if you have a moment. Here at Mays Business School, we’re building a better future through business. And we thank you for being a part of it.